Showing posts with label Space marines. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Space marines. Show all posts

Friday, January 7, 2011

Make Them Know Fear: Killin Space Marines SeerK Style pt 2

So my hatred of Space Marines was furthered after a slaughter house started by the Duke and Baron Sathonyx stalled and ended in a tie game. There was a Grey Knight leading a force of Black Templars who refused to die like a good boy. I may post some details next week, but first we must get back to the methods to my madness. Killin Space Marines. So let us start with one of the most feared and hard to kill units in the forces of the Emperors lamest. Terminators. Armed with a myriad of weapons, including the insanely overpowered and under priced storm shield, these guys are tough to kill because of their 2+ armor save with the option of a 5+ invulnerably save. So lets delve into how you kill these heavily armed and armored elites.

Vs Terminators

Most people solution to killing Terminators is to poor tons of fire into them. Granted massive sustained shuriken fire will force lots of saves and kill a couple, in theory anyway. If your dice and luck are anything like mine though, the Terminators will save every wound out of spite. There are much more efficient ways to kill off terminators though. The answer is quite obvious, force them to take their invulnerably saves. There are several ways for an Eldar and Dark Eldar army to wipe out Terminators even when they are sporting their storm shields. Craftworlders have a few methods at their disposal. Howling Banshees are an ideal choice to take out Terminators. They have power weapons and hit at initiative 10 on the charge. If the Terminator unit is not doomed though you run into the Banshees one real weakness, their strength of 3. This means you tend to force way fewer saves. A doom on the unit can help, but you still have to roll 5's and 6's to wound. Many Eldar players would default to massed scatter laser fire and cross their fingers, but this is inefficient. Although they are lamented and complained about I find the best solution is Star Cannons. At strength 6 and AP 2 they can cut through terminators with ease. The heavy 2 is what turns people off especially with the 25 point cost. War walkers and Vypers can be loaded with Star Cannons. Warwalkers Are the best method as you can have 6 of them in the unit. Guide should be used on the unit to ensure maximum amount of hits. Fire Prisms using the focused beam is an excellent method. 3 fire prisms combining fire for a large blast will give you more hits. Fire Dragons are an obvious choice, but can be risky as you have to be basically in charge range to hit the squad you are firing at. Wraithguard are in the same boat. Wraithcannons are ideal but suffer from the short range. Warlock squads are ideal due to their resiliency and access to enhancing powers. Witchblades forcing lots of saves thanks to the 2+ wounding helps as well. The main thing is to send in units that have staying power like Warlocks if you engage in hand to hand. Otherwise just keep your distance and hit them with the big guns.
Dark Eldar have lots of nice ways to kill Terminators. Some of them rather insidious. My favorite marine killing platform is the Ravager. Outfitted with 3 disintegrators you have basic marine and Terminator killing power. Incubi excel in killing tough armored targets. They have a raw ton of attacks in close combat, a high initiative and power weapons. The shattershard is a very insidious way to kill Terminators. No save is allowed of any kind after a failed toughness test.

Removing the ability to make the 2+ save is the key. Using weapons that force wound and toughness tests and deny saves are ideal for wiping out units quickly.

Vs Thunder wolves

Thunder Wolf Calvary is the new hot unit that many Space Wolf armies run now. They are tough, have multiple wounds and can take some nasty wargear. Much like terminators massed fire is a good method of dealing with them. The secret for these guys though is high strength and “remove from play” weapons. You also want to keep your distance as the 12 inch charge is a bugger.
Fire Prisms with combined beams are very effective in killing wolf cav. Two can use the small blast to insta kill models. Distortion cannons and wraith cannons are very effective as well. My favorite method of killing thunder wolf cav though is Mind War. The regular Thunder wolf cav only have a leadership value of 8 so they are pretty easy to pick off one by one. This lets you get rid of the ones without the storm shields. This lest you concentrate fire and force more wounds on these models. It also lest you avoid the wound allocation game. Pathfinders are effective at killing thunder cav as well. The ability to be AP1 and possibly rending is great especially at range. Of course a good brawl against some fortuned Warlocks is also quite effective.
Dark Eldar can use orbs of despair or dark gates and their blasty strength 10 goodness to eliminate the puppies to great effect. The shattershard also works well here because they would have to roll a 1 or 2 in order to avoid being killed with no save allowed. Just basic Dark Eldar warriors have a very good advantage against Thunder wolves as they always wound on a 4+. Scourges are very effective at killing thunder cav using the massed fire method as well because they can out pace them. Armed with Shard Carbines and lots of heavy weapons capable of tearing through armor makes them efficient killers of pretty much anything.

Basically when it comes to Thunder Wolves you can rely on the fact the unit will be small due to how expensive they are. Massed fire with heavy weapons mixed in can deal with them quickly. You have to stay out of combat with them. Use the terrain wisely and have units to screen your units doing the killing.

Well I have gone on enough. I know I promised Librarians, but they are a entry all their own. These guys can be very annoying and come in a variety of flavors. So next time Librarians. Also I delve into some list design for the Dark Eldar that does not involve The Duke.

So until then......


Death Wakes, War Calls, Death Wakes, War Calls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Monday, January 3, 2011

Make Them Know Fear: KIlling Space Marines SeerK Style

Here we are in 2011. Here we are with the first post of the new year. As promised I am going to delve into tactics more. List development is all well and good, but give an awesome list to a player without any tactical ability and it will still lose. In this installment of “Seer's Tactics” I will be covering a range of topics all of which have one thing in common. Killing Space Marines. It is no secret at the FLGS that I loathe and hate marines with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. I thought I would share some tactics and tricks I have come up with on the fly when facing the Emperors finest. So here we go.

VS Drop Pod Lists

The drop pod assault is a mainstay for some players. Not so much at our FLGS as you will soon find out why. Drop Pod list have one real big flaw. They can't assault when they come in. With a couple exceptions the marines come in, shoot a bit and then just stand there. The other flaw in the list is the amount of kill points it brings to the table. Hitting the marines with concentrated fire and then sending in the assault troops is the simplest method to deal with the marines amongst you. You can be extra crafty though with your deployment to direct the pods where you want them to go. You do this by leaving holes in your deployment. When facing Drop pods I generally deploy my troops spaced out enough so drop pods have to come in at my front firing line. This means casualties but it also means I can fire enmasse and then send in the Banshees, Scorpions or Wyches to clean up the leftovers. I do leave pod sized holes though sometimes if there is a unit I want to kill quickly. Your average player will view the hole as a mistake and deploy a dreadnought or command squad to lead a heroic charge in the midst of my force. Really it is a kill zone manufactured to get me at least 2 kill points very quickly. The secret is to leave a very tempting target in firing range of the drop pod and then have another unit in range to kill the pod and unit inside it. You have to conceal the unit though. I like to do it in a wave serpent or falcon as your opponent can quickly forget what is inside the transports and how fast they can move. This is especially true of Dark Eldar Raiders as you can still pop out and assault.
So deploy to manipulate your enemy into a position where you want them so you can bring an optimal amount of fire to bear. This can be used against pretty much any army that likes to deep strike or is deep strike themed.

VS Razorback Spam.

This is somewhat of an oldie, but a goodie especially when it comes to Space Wolves and codex marines. You are faced with a ton of 5 man combat teams mounted in Razorbacks. It brings a lot of fire and can really be bad against infantry and vehicles almost equally. There are two big flaws you can exploit though. In fact the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar are in a unique position to really bring the hurt to this style of mech list. The aforementioned flaws are, The army lacks punch when the Razorbacks are gone. The five man combat units of marines are very easy to kill especially with massed fire. This style of army also brings a massive amount of kill points to the board. You have 2 to 3 kill points per unit in razorback. This is why some people are fond of tournaments that don't count transports as kill points. A totally ridiculous and bias style that encourages WAAC marine players. So how do you deal with this kind of spam? You blow it apart and get the prize inside. There are several very efficient ways to do this. Its actually very easy with for the Craftworlders. Mostly because you have options. Strike teams of Warp Spiders hitting the rear of the transports is the most effective. Granted the Death Spinner is AP nil but you have a chance to wreck the Razor back and then jump away to escape retribution by the marines, which you can kill the following turn. Vibrocannons also hamper this list greatly as they hurt it where it counts. It makes it so the vehicles can't shoot, thus the marines inside can't shoot. They have to get out to shoot which makes heavy weapons unable to shoot. It allows you to advance and pop the transports and kill the marines inside with impunity.
The Dark Eldar can really bring the hurt as well. Trueborn squads armed with blasters and haywire Grenades can pop razorbacks very well. Venoms then can take out the occupants with their twin splinter cannons. Scourges also can take the wind out of the sails of this list. They are more than capable of popping the transports and at the same time staying out of massed bolter range. They can then jump in and hose a 5 man combat squad with their shard carbines. Wyches armed with Haywire Grenades or even just giving the Hekatrix a blast pistol can also cause some damage. The real secret though is to deny the ability to shoot. Dark Eldar lists really can take advantage of keeping a lot in reserve to deny shooting. Then deep striking in to wreck havoc at close range.



Well this was a decent start. Next time I want to talk about Killing Terminators and Librarians. I will also touch on Thunder Wolves. These 3 units can be quite frustrating, but if you keep your cool you can wipe them out quick. Also I will hopefully have the first installment of my new Podcast later this week. I have to think of what to call it. Nothing has jumped out. Any Suggestions? I will also have some details about the Tournament in March next week. I have to consult Farseer Re-Rolls as he is the Manager of our FLGS. I am calling the tournament “The Challenge of Khaine” Will you be able to stand beside the chosen of the Bloody handed God?

Until then..........



Blood Runs, Anger Rises, Death Wakes, War Calls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!