Anyone have any anecdotes about Jetbikes that I can digest to quicken my mastery of them?
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Thursday, October 17, 2013
Adventures in List Building
I've been trying to quit Wave Serpents cold turkey. Currently, I have been experimenting with Windrider Jetbikes, lots of 'em. Past two games I have had 32 (counting the twin Farseers) flying around the board. I'm not sure how I feel about them, honestly. I'm giving my opinion some salt because much of my trouble probably stems from my trek over their learning curve. So far, they seem to be getting in each others' way. I'm also still learning how I want to deploy them, they have such a huge footprint that getting them behind stuff can be challenging, so I tend to keep a squad or two or three in reserve for better or for worse.
Anyone have any anecdotes about Jetbikes that I can digest to quicken my mastery of them?
Anyone have any anecdotes about Jetbikes that I can digest to quicken my mastery of them?
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Running compact squads and really spacing them out helps, the squads that is. Holding smaller squads in reserve also clears up space. Its hard managing lots of bikes. Terrain can work against you sadly. I really wish they had a way of getting skilled rider. Then you dont have to avoid terrain.
ReplyDeleteI've been running five squads of six bikes. I have also basically just ignored dangerous terrain. If a couple guys crash, so be it.
ReplyDeleteI am going to switch over from my huge old school flying bases to the newer small ones. That should help dramatically.
As far as skilled rider goes, I intend to get some Shining Spears into the list at some point to give them a while. Pity they are Fast Attack. I have all my FA slots plugged up with Vypers and a Crimson Hunter. Star Cannon Vypers aren't bad at all, by the way.
Let me first say that it's nice to see an Eldar post somewhere -- the net is on the SM kick right now, as I'm sure you know.
ReplyDeleteI have only run one small squad of bikes and tend to keep them in reserve to keep them alive till they can be of use. unfortunately they usually get killed or take one casualty and route, or have some other epic fail that prevents them from being super useful. but not always. I can't imagine, though, trying to find something for 32 bikes to do! must look like a hornet's nest on that board! I think more than one squad is a good idea, but too many may simply be too many.
We do quite a few Eldar posts around here. SeerK and I both play them pretty heavily. I have indeed noticed Marine-A-Palooza that a significant amount of the blogs out there are attending.
Delete"Hornet's nest" is actually a pretty good description of how it looks on the field.
I hope you find another avenue for Eldar. I'm looking into making a swooping hawk list but I consistently end up back at serpent spam.
ReplyDeleteI am trying to think differently about Eldar. It's tough for me since I've been playing mech-Eldar for so long now. I would like to know how your Hawk list is coming.
DeleteI've not taken jetbikes yet, but I am preparing 6 for a future game. So I can't really help with your mastery, but you'll probably help with mine :P
ReplyDeleteAs for Serpent spam, I've been having a bit of success and I only run 1. Doesn't stop people complaining though. I had one guy moan about my army because I can reroll armour saves, even though I didn't have a Farseer on the board.
People tend to complain about... well, people just tend to complain. :)
DeleteHopefully, you do glean something from my misadventures with jetbikes.
Thirty bikes seems like alot. My problem with large squads is that it reduces the value of their jumpback move. A squad of three you can plant at 12 inches and shoot and jump back to an average distance of 18-19 inches away a squad of nine has to get closer to get everyone in range (but maybe not). Six might be a nice middle ground. The biggest problem I have using them in this fashion is not only are they very vulnerable, they are also your main scoring units. I don't know what the rest of your army looks like but I have a hard time seeing jetbikes as a focal point for an army. They are nice support units but that is it due to their stat line.
ReplyDeleteI go back and forth about keeping some of them in reserve. To save some space I would probably take one of your squads of six, make it 2 three man squads and hide them early on.
It doesn't seem like much but 1 point of S and T compared to space marine bikers and lack of close combat goodies like grenedes turn them from ok in assault to fairly bad. Even adding a an autarch or farseer doesn't help much as the unit just doesn't do much damage and will get punched just like a basic marine. (Note: Adding a Laughing god autarch with lance nearby however does). Hammer of Wrath + jetbike character + jetbikes can also result in some combats ending early early due to missed initiative steps unless you use the screwed up ruling from the Bay Area Open FAQ, in which case the character potentially loses a lot of usefulness due to the higher initiative.
I agree that having ONLY bikes as your troops may make it hard to score objectives. You'd have to count on rushing all the objectives and hoping to clear them at the very end of the game. I usually like to have a 5-man ranger squad just for sitting on an objective and shooting at juicy targets. A guardian unit with gun platform might be good for that too -- "you guys sit here, hold this, and shoot at stuff as they get close enough." (crappy 'pult ranges mean they have to get close enough to kill you first, tho.) Personally, I'm a big Dire Avenger and aspect warrior guy, so I always have 1 or 2 DA units too.
DeleteI have five bike squads and a squad of Rangers for sitting on an objective. Jetbikes have trouble holding ground, they are only really good at taking it.
DeleteGenerally, if my bikes are assaulting, it is just them ganging up on one or two models. Like a lone Space Marine or something.
I have never had good experiences with three man groups. Yes, you can play a little dodgy bouncing back and forth more easily, but honestly, to me the little squad just lacks resiliency and damage output. Six man squads have always been a sweet spot for jetbikes for how I tend to play them.
absolutely. the 3-bike unit ain't good for much. i always kinda hope it can come in late from reserve and do a quick grab or take out the last models of an already wounded unit or something. havent had much luck with them tho. bigger squad is a good idea. I usually rnu a warlock with them too, so likely i'll try 5 bikers plus a warlock (have 6 models).
DeleteYour hope is the reasoning I frequently get from people about the 3-man squad of jetbikes, J.D. Unfortunately, I have never been able to use them like that. Maybe it is a problem with me, not them.
DeleteI have mixed results with the Warlock in there. Sometimes wonderful, other times not. Oh, if only Warlocks were Leadership 9....
I don't know how you feel about making a switch to footdar, but, like J.D., I run a list with a one, maybe two, wave serpents, Dire Avengers for troops, A Farseer and a Pheonix Lord W/ retinue for HQ, and some Wraithlords stomping around, although it isn't a tourney army, it is quite fun for LGS games.
ReplyDeleteA11eyCat
I'm not opposed to Footdar, in principle anyway. I have just never really been able to wrap my head around the lack of mobility you have for the majority of the units. I may go that route eventually, but for now I want fast lists. It's the reason I chose Eldar in the first place. The friend that was getting me into the hobby took me to the GW store to get an army, and I asked him which army was the "fastest", he said Eldar and so I grabbed a Farseer and an Eldar starter box.
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